Does the Koran really promise Islamic martyrs 72 virgins?

Radiate_Truth · Joined: 18 Aug 2007 Posts: 1056

Does the Koran really promise Islamic martyrs 72 virgins?

14-Dec-2001

Dear Cecil:

There's been a lot of talk about how the hijackers who destroyed the World Trade Center expected to receive 72 virgins (or 70 or 50, depending on whom you listen to) in paradise. Is this really true? (That they expected this, I mean, not that they'll receive it.) It seems a rather unsophisticated and juvenile theology: "In heaven you can eat all the ice cream you want and stay up past ten o'clock and it's always recess." Is there any Koranic basis for believing that those who kill and die for the faith will get the aforementioned virgins? --J. Haas

Cecil replies:

I realize I'm treading on dangerous ground here. But I figure, Salman Rushdie got a fatwa, and I want one too.

A couple observations. First, nonfundamentalist Muslims don't take the cosmological parts of the Koran any more literally than nonfundamentalist Christians take the biblical story of Genesis. They understand the bits about virgins and so on as metaphors for the ineffable joys of the afterlife. Second, while dreams of celestial babes may motivate the impoverished Palestinian kids who blow themselves up on Israeli street corners, a number of the 9-11 terrorists were older and had known something of earthly delights. That these middle-class types nonetheless were suicidal fanatics is yet another indication that we've entered a scary new phase.

Now to your question. The difficulty in determining what the Koran has to say about virgins and such is establishing what the Koran says, period. Translators vary widely in their rendering of the spare and often opaque text. For example, we find the following passage in a Web-based version of Islam's holy book (www.unn.ac.uk/societies/islamic/index.htm): "Verily, for the Muttaqun [righteous], there will be a success (paradise); gardens and grapeyards; and young full-breasted (mature) maidens of equal age; and a full cup (of wine)" (An-Naba 78:31-34). Whoa, one thinks--the Kingdom of Heaven meets the Playboy Advisor! However, most other English translations, both on-line and in print, replace "full-breasted maidens" with some tame construction such as "companions." Inquiring further, we find that the Arabic word at issue is WakawaAAiba, which appears nowhere else in the Koran. The French, less prudish in these matters, usually render it as something like des belles aux seins arrondis, "beautiful women with round breasts," so I think it's pretty clear what the Prophet, or at least his stenographers, had in mind.

Nothing in the Koran specifically states that the faithful are allotted 72 virgins apiece. For this elaboration we turn to the hadith, traditional sayings traced with varying degrees of credibility to Muhammad. Hadith number 2,562 in the collection known as the Sunan al-Tirmidhi says, "The least [reward] for the people of Heaven is 80,000 servants and 72 wives, over which stands a dome of pearls, aquamarine and ruby."

A little hype from the marketing department, you may say. Fine. Let's return to the Koran, Islam's font of religious authority. Even if we leave out the racy detail and make allowances for metaphor, we're obliged to admit that Islamic heaven is a pretty rockin' place, with an emphasis on sensual pleasures. The provision of virgins in indeterminate quantities is alluded to at numerous points, and you know they're not just there to fluff the pillows. (In fairness to the Prophet, the physical quality usually attributed to the houris, as they're called, is "wide lovely eyes.") The food, service, ambience., etc, are great. You're allowed to enjoy things the Koran explicitly denies you on earth, such as alcohol, and you won't even get sick. ("Wine . . . delicious to those who drink it . . . will neither dull their senses nor they will become drunk.") Granted, the whole thing is skewed toward the male idea of a good time, a defect by no means confined to Islam. Were Muhammad to found a religion today, I'm confident that each female arrival in heaven would be assigned a comely stud who would provide fabulous sex and in addition hang the curtain rods the first time he was asked. Granted, also, the emphasis on virgins is a little weird. (Think back on the first nights you've been party to. Was this your idea of great sex?) Still, you have to admit, heaven as Party Central sure beats the Christian idea of angels with harps.

Does this make Islamic cosmology "unsophisticated and juvenile"? Maybe. (Oh, let's not be lame about this. Of course it does.) But don't be too quick to judge. Christianity, after all, invented the idea of paradise in the first place. Looking at things from the point of view of a cynical materialist, which is the more outrageous proposition--luring the proles with the promise of eternal life, or throwing 72 virgins into the bargain?

--CECIL ADAMS

SOURCE

The Inquisitor · Joined: 17 Jun 2006 Posts: 772

Actually,

The French he quoted says, "preety women with rounded breasts." I know the difference is picayune, but I thought I'd still mention it I think the whole story about what a Muslim martyr is killing himself for is totally a product of Western science fiction and has little to do with what is really going through the head of someone who is about to commit the ultimate and defining act as a human being, to die. Somehow, I don't think virgins are anywhere near the top of the thought process.

Perhaps this would be a better classification of such a person's thought process, whether he be the killer at Columbine High School, the one at that elementary school of the Quakers, a Jim Jones wannabe or a young adult on the streets of Haifa or Baghdad.

And let me say something about the suicide bomber Jim Jones. He committed one of the most heinous crimes in the past 50 years. He was a Christian extremist who took suicide bombing to a new level. He "forced" nearly 1,000 people to commit suicide because he was a paranoid megalomaniac Christian wack job. Talk about mass suicide. It took nearly thirty years for the next 1,000 suicide bombings to take place. He took a mere 10 hours to force everyone to drink his koolaid. In a completely unrelated event, my father was a member of the hippy commune The More House at this time, 1978. It's located in the San Francisco Bay Area and there were around 600 living there at the time. I asked my father when were they going to drink their koolaid, and he said that they really hadn't decided on a flavor yet, but it was in the works.

Here then, is my concept of the last few minutes of a suicide bomber, mass murderer, would be thinking about:

1. Where is everyone in relationship to me? (Don't forget that Jim Jones had his lieutenants to ensure that everyone was going to drink his brew).

2. What is the next step (at least until the step of blowing oneself up or drinking koolaid (I understand that Jim actually shot himself).

3. Perform the next step.

4. Do I have everything ready for the next step. Most of the time this will include a mental check down of all necessary material.

5. Are there unplanned movements anywhere that might affect my action.

6. Return to step one.

Here's what I doubt that's going through their minds:

1. Will I be having sex tonight?

2. How pretty are the girls?? Are they like the girl I like here??

3. I wonder if we get a lot of cash too? What are the grocery stores like in Heaven?

4. I hope they have my favorite program up there. I wouldn't want to miss the next episode.

5. Did I wear clean underwear?? Mom always said to have clean underwear on when you commit suicide.

To imagine that one's last few thoughts before deliberately committing suicide is anything but a complete focus on peripheral awareness, the process at hand and how it changes from the planned version, and what's my next move, doesn't understand the seriousness we all give death. Very few people will nonchalantly, hip-hop their way to nonexistence.

Which is only one of the reasons I don't like what I saw on 9/11. The second plane to hit the WTC banked heavily right before it hit. If I was the "terrorist pilot" with a 757 under my control for the first time in my life and knowing that I was about to die, I would have been focusing on those towers since, oh maybe, 100 miles out. It would have been front and center in my viewfinder and I wouldn't have taken my eyes off it for the remaining, oh two or three minutes of my life. Sure, if I'm a champion air ace a la Baron Manfred von Richthofen, I could fly dashingly into the second tower waving goodbye to my adoring fans as I banked the plane at 45 degrees just three seconds before impact.

And then we have Hani Hanour performing a 270 degree turn over the Pentagon so that he misses Rumsfeld's office entirely and slams into THE ONLY part of the Pentagon that was recently reinforced to withstand a bomb explosion. Had he just been a simple terrorist pilot he would have dove directly into the Pentagon, and Donald Rumsfeld's office, killing him on impact (he was just next door). Thank goodness he had the sense and temerity to bank the plane through THREE RIGHT HAND TURNS to hit the most heavily fortified area of the entire building. Good job, Hani, even though you were a terrorist pilot and we hate you. Thanks for causing the least amount of damage possible to our Pentagon. Your piloting prowess will be surely missed.

But hey, these 19 crazed terrorists got so lucky that day, it isn't even funyy. Probably the only day in over 40 years that the Northeast Corridor of the US is not defended in the air. Normally, that whole space around the White House and New York City is the most heavily guarded space on the planet. How lucky can one get. And the Pentagon is the most filmed building on the planet, but none of the cameras seemed to work that day. I mean, those guys were so lucky, it's almost embarassing.

I doubt that many suicide bombers discuss the Ruy Lopez counter attack in chess before pulling the trigger. The exact number of virgins set aside for each one is probably not very high on their agenda at that point in time, either. It does sound corny and funny, but is more for those in Hollywood to create funny characters than for any debate purposes.

obmar · Site Admin Joined: 14 Apr 2006 Posts: 5697

Since you asked, Can I offer
a free return ticket to Malaysia
if anyone that can show me
the verse that mentions
the 72 virgins in the Quran.

Radiate_Truth · Joined: 18 Aug 2007 Posts: 1056

The Inquisitor · Joined: 17 Jun 2006 Posts: 772

obmar,

Here is a taste on how Americans see the Arabs in today's world, and by extension, how Americans see Islam. Hollywood's consistent portrayal of them as extremely dangerous and incredibly stupid still lives on today.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ko_N4BcaIPY

4 minutes

Reel Bad Arabs

obmar · Site Admin Joined: 14 Apr 2006 Posts: 5697

Bukhari is not part of the Quran.

Radiate_Truth · Joined: 18 Aug 2007 Posts: 1056

obmar · Site Admin Joined: 14 Apr 2006 Posts: 5697

First, rachel, you have to know
what the Quran is.

Quran are verses that was revealed
over a period of 22 years
during the Prophethood of Muhammad.

It came in short batches usually over happenings and incidences
but each time the verses, the believers memorised them.
The verses and style of the language is unique
and even the best poets of that time stood in awe
and no one could come close to the beauty,
relevance and quality of the verses.
Contents, subject, are of strange heavenly quality
not possible for any man or group of men to emulate it.

During the Prophet a diligent QC
was done that the sahabah/early believers
recite it back to the prophet frequently and complied
into a book 6236 verses, 30 subsections
and 114 chapters.

Even the arrangement was personally supervised by the Prophet

To date there is no dispute that
the integrity of the Quran
was well guarded and not a character had changed
since the days of the prophet.

And that Quran is the most read book
and probably also the most memorised book.
(Those that recite the whole Quran is said to
have special passes during ressurrection
that they need not have to be asked
for their deeds and just sent straight to heaven.)

That is the Quran
Thed Holy Book
The Guidance for Mankind
directly from the Lord via Muhammad

It had not changed
it cannot be changed
and it will not be changed
The guarding of the Quran rest on God Himself,
rather than men.

That is the Quran,

And no, never and wont ever be a mention
of the 72 virgins there, anywhere in the quran,

That is a complete lie if anyone claims that that is from the Quran.

It surfaced only after 911.
I had never heard of it prior to 911.

Is that clear, Rachel.

Radiate_Truth · Joined: 18 Aug 2007 Posts: 1056

Thank you!!!
Gonna start taking and keeping notes...

The 72 virgins, never heard of it concerning 9/11.

The forums I have frequented associate the 72 virgin myth with the suicide bombers of the Middle East, about the time of the Israel security wall was is still being built. I haven't done any research on it but would you not say or agree that Israel gets the majority of suicide bombings or is it cause I'm more focused on Israel more than any other country???

Harris Brio · Site Admin Joined: 31 May 2006 Posts: 253