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Radiate_Truth

Sabra & Shatila

Sabra & Shatila


The Lebanese Christian Phalangist militia was responsible for the massacres that occurred at the two Beirut-area refugee camps on September 16-17, 1982. Israeli troops allowed the Phalangists to enter Sabra and Shatila to root out terrorist cells believed located there. It had been estimated that there may have been up to 200 armed men in the camps working out of the countless bunkers built by the PLO over the years, and stocked with generous reserves of ammunition.

When Israeli soldiers ordered the Phalangists out, they found hundreds dead (estimates range from 460 according to the Lebanese police, to 700-800 calculated by Israeli intelligence). The dead, according to the Lebanese account, included 35 women and children. The rest were men: Palestinians, Lebanese, Pakistanis, Iranians, Syrians and Algerians. The killings came on top of an estimated 95,000 deaths that had occurred during the civil war in Lebanon from 1975-1982.

The killings were perpetrated to avenge the murders of Lebanese President Bashir Gemayel and 25 of his followers, killed in a bomb attack earlier that week.

Israel had allowed the Phalange to enter the camps as part of a plan to transfer authority to the Lebanese, and accepted responsibility for that decision. The Kahan Commission of Inquiry, formed by the Israeli government in response to public outrage and grief, found that Israel was indirectly responsible for not anticipating the possibility of Phalangist violence. Israel instituted the panel's recommendations, including the dismissal of Gen. Raful Eitan, the Army Chief of Staff. Defense Minister Ariel Sharon resigned.

The Kahan Commission, declared former Secretary of State Henry Kissinger, was "a great tribute to Israeli democracy....There are very few governments in the world that one can imagine making such a public investigation of such a difficult and shameful episode."

Ironically, while 300,000 Israelis demonstrated in Israel to protest the killings, little or no reaction occurred in the Arab world. Outside the Middle East, a major international outcry against Israel erupted over the massacres. The Phalangists, who perpetrated the crime, were spared the brunt of the condemnations for it.

By contrast, few voices were raised in May 1985, when Muslim militiamen attacked the Shatila and Burj-el Barajneh Palestinian refugee camps. According to UN officials, 635 were killed and 2,500 wounded. During a two-year battle between the Syrian-backed Shiite Amal militia and the PLO, more than 2,000, including many civilians, were reportedly killed. No outcry was directed at the PLO or the Syrians and their allies over the slaughter. International reaction was also muted in October 1990 when Syrian forces overran Christian-controlled areas of Lebanon. In the eight-hour clash, 700 Christians were killed-the worst single battle of Lebanon's Civil War.

SOURCE
The Inquisitor

RT, obmar,

Help me out here. I remember Israel invading Lebanon all the way to Beirut. This was pre-Hezbollah. The Civil War had been going on for 7 years and 10 years respectively. What was their reason for the invasion?

I found this on the net:

http://www.politicalcrossfire.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=93645

They are discussing the same events. I don't see here any comments on what brought the US involvement either, but Reagan had a burr in his tosh and felt like sending Marines over there. Way to go, cowboy. I think we can classify that manoeuver under, "Never Again."

I'll keep digging.
obmar

Can I be banned even before I enroll as a member?

the response I got following your link is

You have been banned from this forum.
Please contact the administrator for more information at endersshadow@politicalcrossfire.com.
Radiate_Truth

Obmar...
I haven't even registered yet...
You're already banned.

Now I know what will happen to me as soon as they find out I'm an Israeli supporter, Zionist.
Radiate_Truth

The Inquisitor wrote:
RT, obmar,

Help me out here. I remember Israel invading Lebanon all the way to Beirut. This was pre-Hezbollah. The Civil War had been going on for 7 years and 10 years respectively. What was their reason for the invasion?

I found this on the net:

http://www.politicalcrossfire.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=93645

They are discussing the same events. I don't see here any comments on what brought the US involvement either, but Reagan had a burr in his tosh and felt like sending Marines over there. Way to go, cowboy. I think we can classify that manoeuver under, "Never Again."

I'll keep digging.


PLO Tyranny in Lebanon

For Arab residents of south Lebanon, PLO rule was a nightmare. After the PLO was expelled from Jordan by King Hussein in 1970, many of its cadres went to Lebanon. The PLO seized whole areas of the country, where it brutalized the population and usurped Lebanese government authority.

On October 14, 1976, Lebanese Ambassador Edward Ghorra told the UN General Assembly the PLO was bringing ruin upon his country: “Palestinian elements belonging to various splinter organizations resorted to kidnaping Lebanese, and sometimes foreigners, holding them prisoners, questioning them, and even sometimes killing them.”

Columnists Rowland Evans and Robert Novak, not known for being sympathetic toward Israel, declared after touring south Lebanon and Beirut that the facts "tend to support Israel's claim that the PLO has become permeated by thugs and adventurers" (Washington Post, June 25, 1982). Countless Lebanese told harrowing tales of rape, mutilation and murders committed by PLO forces.

New York Times correspondent David Shipler visited Damour, a Christian village near Beirut, which had been occupied by the PLO since 1976, when Palestinians and Lebanese leftists sacked the city and massacred hundreds of its inhabitants. The PLO, Shipler wrote, had turned the town into a military base, "using its churches as strongholds and armories" (New York Times, June 21, 1982).

When the IDF drove the PLO out of Damour in June 1982, Prime Minister Menachem Begin announced that the town's Christian residents could come home and rebuild. Returning villagers found their former homes littered with spray-painted Palestinian nationalist slogans, Fatah literature and posters of Yasir Arafat. They told Shipler how happy they were that Israel had liberated them.

REST IS HERE
The Inquisitor

Um RT,

I don't want to rain on your parade, but the Lebanese wanted the IDF off their territory as soon as possible. Their mere presence in Lebanon gave birth to Hezbollah.

Quote:
The Israeli invasion, in the end, worsened the situation in Lebanon; internal divisions were sharpened, the Shiites became increasingly aware of the strength of their numbers, and they have now become the largest Muslim group in Lebanon. The Shiites also became more radicalized, particularly in the south and in the southern suburbs of Beirut where many had migrated, first because of their enmity toward the PLO and then because of Israel�s prolonged occupation after the 1982 invasion.

By June 1985, Israeli troops had withdrawn from Lebanon. However, Israeli presence continued, since Israel insisted on maintaining forces in its so-called Security Zone. Israel has found it much harder to withdraw its troops than it was to send them in. The Shiites and southern Lebanese, who had originally welcomed Israeli troops as a means of dislodging the PLO, became unhappy at the disregard for their property and traditional economic patterns and at policies that seemed designed to incorporate them into the Israeli economy. There were multiple terrorist attacks against the Israeli and any other western countries� presence in Lebanon.

The Israelis achieved few of their goals by going into Lebanon. The Lebanese government remained weak and divided, and the civil war continued. The Maronites and the Phalange were unable to reestablish their former control over the country and, in any event, did not seek closer ties with Israel. Israel and American political influence in Lebanon was commensurably reduced. The Syrian presence was strengthened and was backed up by modern Soviet weapons. Finally, the large number of casualties among Lebanese and Palestinian civilians, and the widespread destruction that resulted from the Israeli invasion, not only brought worldwide condemnation of Israel but also an upsurge of sympathy and support for the Palestinian cause from all corners of the globe.


http://www-personal.umich.edu/~rt...98PS353498PAPERS/DUSSO.AARON.HTML

I agree that the PLO was very violent at the time and that was despicable. But I also think the US and Israel overreacted, especially with Israel staying there for years, becasue that's exactly why Hezbollah came into existence. Now we have a docile PLO (Fatah) who has to give way to Hamas, a more militant organization, in Gaza and to Hezbollah in Lebanon.
obmar

What the west hear and what happens
in that area is usually bias and distorted
and need to be filtered properly.
Radiate_Truth

Go ahead Obmar...
I think you're the man for the job.

That conflict your speaking of is like the history of the Holocaust. Do Holocaust Revisionists deniers really give a damn about the Holocaust??? Heck NO!!! The only interest they have in the Holocaust, Jews, Zionism, that little tiny Jewish state called Israel is as a promotional tool to get them media attention, fame and line their pockets with that mean green, money.

If David Irving buying a Rolls Royce ain't proof of that...
I don't know what is...

Quote:
Irving also took pride in the success of his books and claimed that he the fortune he made from sales of his biography on World War II German General Erwin Rommel enabled him to walk into a car showroom with a paper bag stuffed with cash to buy a "Nigger brown Rolls-Royce."

SOURCE
obmar

Why Muslims hate Israel.

Very Happy
Radiate_Truth

The whole Middle East crisis is about who can over dramatize the circumstances, stir the pot for attention to get a better job promotion and more money. The more colorful the adjectives or adverbs they use, the more attention the public is gonna give it, the more it sells newspapers.

They ain't thinking about their religious moral or ethic values.
obmar

You cannot dramatise
if it involves lives of elderly, women and children
Harris Brio

Radiate_Truth wrote:
The whole Middle East crisis is about who can over dramatize the circumstances, stir the pot for attention to get a better job promotion and more money. The more colorful the adjectives or adverbs they use, the more attention the public is gonna give it, the more it sells newspapers.

They ain't thinking about their religious moral or ethic values.


You are speaking of the Palestinian Authority and the Israeli knesset...
obmar

Re: Why Muslims hate Israel.

obmar wrote:
Very Happy



Here is a good one of the likes that you have to filter.

The Genie said, "Nope. Due to inflation, constant downsizing, low wages in third-world countries and fierce global competition, I can only grant you one wish. So, what'll it be?"

The woman didn't hesitate. She said, "I want peace in the Middle East . See this map? I want these countries to stop fighting with each other."

The Genie looked at the map and exclaimed, "Gadzooks, lady! These countries
Quote:
have been at war for thousands of years
. I'm good, but not THAT good! I don't think it can be done. Make another wish."

The woman thought for a minute. She said, "Well, I've been trying to find the right husband. You know, one that's considerate and fun, likes to cook and helps with the housecleaning, has a great sense of humor and gets along with my family, doesn't watch sports all the time and is faithful. That's what I wish for. A good mate."

The Genie let out a long sigh and said, "Let me see that map again."
Radiate_Truth

Re: Why Muslims hate Israel.

obmar wrote:
obmar wrote:
Very Happy



Here is a good one of the likes that you have to filter.

The Genie said, "Nope. Due to inflation, constant downsizing, low wages in third-world countries and fierce global competition, I can only grant you one wish. So, what'll it be?"

The woman didn't hesitate. She said, "I want peace in the Middle East . See this map? I want these countries to stop fighting with each other."

The Genie looked at the map and exclaimed, "Gadzooks, lady! These countries
Quote:
have been at war for thousands of years
. I'm good, but not THAT good! I don't think it can be done. Make another wish."

The woman thought for a minute. She said, "Well, I've been trying to find the right husband. You know, one that's considerate and fun, likes to cook and helps with the housecleaning, has a great sense of humor and gets along with my family, doesn't watch sports all the time and is faithful. That's what I wish for. A good mate."

The Genie let out a long sigh and said, "Let me see that map again."


If that doesn't speak volumes of truth...
I don't know what does.

Your right!!!
Much more easier to stop war than it is for a woman to find a decent man.
Notice I said man and not husband.
Gets harder to find even a decent man these days.
Radiate_Truth

obmar wrote:
You cannot dramatise
if it involves lives of elderly, women and children


Just one good example...

Some kid gets a cut on his knee falling down...

The media makes it sound like it walked thro' a mine field, got his her whole leg blown off. Then cause it happened in Israel. The media in their round about way makes it sound like it's every Jews fault living on the face of the earth.  

The media publishes volumes of articles everyday where they take a situation , blow it way out proportion. Make it sound bigger than it really is...
Radiate_Truth

Harris Brio wrote:
Radiate_Truth wrote:
The whole Middle East crisis is about who can over dramatize the circumstances, stir the pot for attention to get a better job promotion and more money. The more colorful the adjectives or adverbs they use, the more attention the public is gonna give it, the more it sells newspapers.

They ain't thinking about their religious moral or ethic values.


You are speaking of the Palestinian Authority and the Israeli knesset...


Harris, it could be something happening way on the other side of the world, have nothing whatsoever to do with the Israel / Palestinian situation...

Take this that I posted here for instance...

Descendants of Sitting Bull, Crazy Horse break away from US

You watch some idiot reporter wanting to make a name for himself, will take this, add a little Jew Spice to it, next he's got a job making tons of money working for some big media company like ABC, CBS, NBC, etc. What did the Jews have to do with it, not one damn thing...
obmar

Re: Why Muslims hate Israel.

Radiate_Truth wrote:
obmar wrote:
obmar wrote:
Very Happy



Here is a good one of the likes that you have to filter.

The Genie said, "Nope. Due to inflation, constant downsizing, low wages in third-world countries and fierce global competition, I can only grant you one wish. So, what'll it be?"

The woman didn't hesitate. She said, "I want peace in the Middle East . See this map? I want these countries to stop fighting with each other."

The Genie looked at the map and exclaimed, "Gadzooks, lady! These countries
Quote:
have been at war for thousands of years
. I'm good, but not THAT good! I don't think it can be done. Make another wish."

The woman thought for a minute. She said, "Well, I've been trying to find the right husband. You know, one that's considerate and fun, likes to cook and helps with the housecleaning, has a great sense of humor and gets along with my family, doesn't watch sports all the time and is faithful. That's what I wish for. A good mate."

The Genie let out a long sigh and said, "Let me see that map again."


If that doesn't speak volumes of truth...
I don't know what does.

Your right!!!
Much more easier to stop war than it is for a woman to find a decent man.
Notice I said man and not husband.
Gets harder to find even a decent man these days.


All the decent ones are the God Consious Muslims and Married

Cool  Cool
Radiate_Truth

All the good men and women are taken.
All the good men married to terrible women.
All the good women married to terrible men.

You are the only exception I have met...
But then I have never spoken to your wife...
I only have your word, that your wife and you are happily blessed.

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