| Archive for bridgebuilder.myfreeforum.org bridgebuilding effort, cross culture, cross faith, not bridge construction |
| Radiate_Truth |
Is Zionism racist?Is Zionism racist?No. Zionism is a process with the ultimate goal of a Jewish homeland. Participation in this process is not restricted to Jews alone. Furthermore, the question is an example of how even simple questions can use inflammatory terminology, as "racist" has a pejoritive sense and is an imprecise term. A central tenet of Zionism is that there should exist a place in the world where Jews have sovereignty. This is no different from the ethnic desires of other minority and ethnic groups; I'm sure you can name numerous examples. Recent history has demonstrated the need for such a homeland; alas, humanity doesn't appear to be moving in a direction that would eliminate that need. Is the desire for a Jewish homeland "racist"? No. Racism is a belief that race is the primary determinant of human traits and that racial differences produce an inherent superiority of a particular race. Judaism is not a race--adherents come from multiple ethnic backgrounds. More importantly, there is no notion in Zionism that Jews are superior to other races (unlike, for example, the Nazis, who held that the Aryan race was superior). Please remember that Zionism is distinct from the state of Israel; if you look at the history of Zionism, you will see that for some of the zionistic movements, Israel was not the target homeland (in fact, you'll discover that at one time, Uganda was an option). Israel is modern political state that strives to provide a pluralistic and open society, comprising many ethnic and religious groups. It doesn't always succeed in this goal, but neither do other democratic states. As a modern state, Israel is subject to various political realities that dictate its laws and regulations. Discussion of these laws and regulations is less germane to the focus of S.C.J and is more appropriate for [5]talk.politics.mideast. However, the primacy of Jewish law in Israel is no more "racist" than the primacy of Catholic law in Vatican City, the primacy of the Church of England in Great Britain, or the primacy of Islam in many Arabic countries. So what is the connection between Zionism and Israel? Zionism helped found the state, and provided the underlying zeal for many of Israel's leaders. The Zionist zeal still helps provide funding for the state, as many Jews outside of Israel support Zionist organizations operating in Israel. SOURCE |
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| obmar |
when moses started preaching before the crossing of the of the red sea, where were they? | ||
| Radiate_Truth |
Bondage, slaves to Egypt. | ||
| obmar |
No they were free men
There were no history of them being under bondage or being slaves. The story of the slaves were after the 40 years roaming aimlessly after they crossed the read sea, and they had only breads from heaven. they wanted more than just plain bread. So moses prayed for those. They got those, when they were captured and taken as slaves. That happened on this side of the red sea. |
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| Radiate_Truth |
They lived in Egypt under Pharoah's rule...
When Moses told Pharoah, "to let my people go". When Pharoah's men tried to cross the Red Sea is when the waters rose. After the Hebrews got safely across. The Hebrews were then finally free. Although they had some other hardships to worry about after that... Or have I been watching to many Charlton Heston movies... 
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| obmar |
To let them go then was not slavery.
To let them go was to allow them to go out of egypt because they did not accept the Pharaoh as God, when the pharaoh proclaimed that he is the greatest ruler, and thus he is God. The naration of that part is found in the Quran. 2:60 And [remember] when Moses prayed for water for his people and We replied, "Strike the rock with thy staff!"-whereupon twelve springs gushed forth from it, so that all the people knew whence to drink. [45] [And Moses said:] "Eat and drink the sustenance provided by God, and do not act wickedly on earth by spreading corruption." 2:61 And [remember] when you said: "O Moses, indeed we cannot endure but one kind of food; pray, then, to thy Sustainer that He bring forth for us aught of what grows from the earth - of its herbs, its cucumbers, its garlic, its lentils, its onions." Said [Moses]: "Would you take a lesser thing in exchange for what is [so much] better? [46] Go back in shame to Egypt , and then you can have what you are asking for!" [47] And so, ignominy and humiliation overshadowed them, and they earned the burden of God's condemnation: all this, because they persisted in denying the truth of God's messages and in slaying the prophets against all right: all this, because they rebelled [against God], and persisted in transgressing the bounds of what is right. [48] 2:62 VERILY, those who have attained to faith [in this divine writ], as well as those who follow the Jewish faith, and the Christians, and the Sabians [49] -all who believe in God and the Last Day and do righteous deeds-shall have their reward with their Sustainer; and no fear need they have, and neither shall they grieve. [50] |
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| obmar |
Remember the only key,
Keep on doing righteous deeds... Doesnt matter what we are, Muslims Christians, Jews and others |
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| The Inquisitor |
obmar is right,
But I have also heard a lot of people who call themselves "Zionists" but actively seek to conquer other lands and kill people. Here is a link that I use to illustrate how I feel about Jews and Zionists: http://www.jewsagainstzionism.com/zionism/history.cfm I have been able to find proof on the web for most of their claims. Zionism seems to have begun in the late 1800s in England. They explain the rest rather completely. They also identify the role of Jews around the world. I don't believe the Zionists have followed that same path, rather they have chosen a path of confrontation and exclusion which brings us to where we are today. |
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| obmar |
The best description of what happened for the last 25 years
would be from volunteers that when there to help the Palestines. I tend to be a bit wavy especially reporting that are not objectively done and muddled with some special interest. Lies repeated many times can appear to be truth. |
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| Radiate_Truth |
Don't get me wrong, with their little black coats, their sombrero type hats with cute little pigtails, one hanging on each side of their face, I think they are just sincerely adorable little fellows. You also know the world is gonna move on with or without us... There are always gonna be those who barely in the 20th century have yet to reach the 21st. As your grand parents. You admire and respect your elders and their old ways but they still live in the past as the ultra-orthodox Jews or the Neturei Karta. Zionists are not responsible for what is being done in their names, most often behind their backs... just as you are not responsible for the criminal acts that your state or country is undertaking. Israelis and Jews who identify as Zionist are thus manipulated into believing that an attack on one of them is an attack on all of them. I've heard of nazi dictators but I've never heard of a Zionist dictator. The Scriptures the Jews believe in do not teach nazi ideology...that they are a superior race. In fact it says alot of very negative things about them which may explain why their is this culture of extreme Jewish self criticism and until recently, subservience. None of the reasons why the Jews were chosen are supremacist, not racially, culturally perhaps at the time. The Bible gives the impression it was just by chance cause they were smaller and weaker at the time than surrounding nations. Not cause they were some sort of master race. In fact the Bible spends alot of time putting them down and humbling them. You need not worry about it...I can assure you they are nothing like nazism or nazis. I know your source well... But their is no one who can teach Zionism better than the Zionist guys on the web, concerning not only your old fashioned anti-Zionist buddies but everything and anything you want to know about Zionism and then some here... SOURCE By all means take your time looking over the web site... I just registered, so you also might wanna check out their forum here... Zionism Forums I've noticed their web site has grown a great deal. Didn't know they had two forums on their web site until I accidently ran into this one also. Let me register on this one also... Zionism-Israel Center Forum Obmar... What do you say to this... This forum might also interest you, need your expertise... It has a category called... Sex in the Muslim/Arab world I don't know about you guys but I tend to take 6 or 7 forums at one time... If the forum is down, I get banned or suspended, I just take on another. |
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